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Partially Implemented Bookies bank all stakes from wagers placed on outcomes that do not pay out.

Discussion in 'Sportsbook Closed Suggestions' started by topcat, Sep 10, 2012.

  1. topcat

    topcat Member Sportsbook Pickem Survivor

    would it be possible to add an option where the bookie banks the punters losses for the event they set.

    option would maybe be in usergroup options eg. keeps cash from losing bets

    eg. A member sets an event Man utd V Barnsley

    everyone bets 100 on Man utd

    Barnsley wins. The bookie who set the event pockets and the 100's.

    I have a shop on my forum and would like to offer bookie for the day/week as a shop item.

    I think the possibility of being able to make money out of being the bookie would encourage more members to add events.

    cheers
     
  2. Bob

    Bob Developer Staff Member

    I have a prototype were the bookies receive all the wagers placed on the event and then when the event is settled, those that WIN get their money from the Bookie. This is how it works in REAL LIFE, so it is the most realistic way of doing it. This stops the bookies from creating unrealistic payout odds for outcomes that are likely to pay out.

    Its POSSIBLE to do what you are asking, but it would require a lot of changes within the CORE addon and I am not sure I want to make those changes just for this feature that doesn't make the addon more REALISTIC. As stated, I've already got a working prototype that I am leaning towards which is realistic.

    I WILL look into it for you tho AND I do offer custom work outside of making changes to the core addon.
     
  3. topcat

    topcat Member Sportsbook Pickem Survivor

    yeah sounds great. I was going to suggest a realistic bookie but thought it would mean lots of changes. BUt if you have a prototype of this i would be interested
     
  4. Bob

    Bob Developer Staff Member

    Its nowhere close to being something that I would consider releasing publicly tho. I just slapped things together to see how it MIGHT work, hence the terminology "Prototype". To make this releasable, it would take a lot of coding (which I can't justify right now).
     
  5. topcat

    topcat Member Sportsbook Pickem Survivor

    Fair enough
     
  6. Bob

    Bob Developer Staff Member

    I didn't forget this, its just that it is extremely difficult to pull off with the current architecture of the addon, so I am marking "Not Considered" for right now as it is not something I can add into the system at the moment. Will revisit it when I am working on a new architecture for Sportsbook.
     
    wcbryant likes this.
  7. Bob

    Bob Developer Staff Member

    I've opened this back up for discussion as I want some feed back from license holders on this.

    I really don't want to award bookies only for when people place losing bets. I personally feel that they should have to payout when people win as well.
     
  8. topcat

    topcat Member Sportsbook Pickem Survivor

    yeah that sounds good. would probably need to be able to set a max amount of bets on an event though to make sure they can cover the winnings
     
  9. Bob

    Bob Developer Staff Member

    Well, I'd make it so that winnings are covered by the "SYSTEM" so that everyone is actually covered regardless if the bookie had enough on hand cash. Then the system deduct from the bookie until it hit zero. I can't make it go into negative because of the ability to use other cash systems and if those systems don't have a proper financial field (one that will allow negative values) then it would mess things up lol

    Also, the payout to the bookie would come AFTER the wagers have been settled (even tho stages are placed before hand). Stakes would sit in a queue that would either be returned or awarded to the bookie. That way the bookie can't collect millions and then bet it away on another event so that he doesn't lose anything lol
     
    ozsports likes this.
  10. topcat

    topcat Member Sportsbook Pickem Survivor

    That would be great. really hope this get implemented
     
  11. Bob

    Bob Developer Staff Member

    Giving the bookie all the stakes for outcomes that didn't payout is a piece of cake. Its the opposite part that is the challenge (taking money away from the bookie). I guess I need feed back on that part of the process. What do people want in that regards?
     
  12. DaniD

    DaniD New Member Showcase Sportsbook

    I love this idea!
     
  13. Bob

    Bob Developer Staff Member

    me too... just want to make sure its implemented correctly (so that it is optional as well as doesn't break things lol)
     
    Regs and DaniD like this.
  14. Bob

    Bob Developer Staff Member

    Marked as partially implemented as I've not yet fully implemented everything that I would like to do with this as well as what others would like to see as well.

    There is a new Sportsbook General Option: Pay Bookies stakes from losing wagers. When enabled, bookies will bank all stakes from wagers placed on outcomes that do not pay out during the settlement process. This does not include outcomes that were pushed or wagers placed on any outcomes by the owner of the event (we are NOT going to give the bookie back his own losses as that makes absolutely NO SENSE!)

    The Owner of the event (the Bookie) will receive ONE alert during the settlement process letting them know that they received the stakes from losing wagers for event x.

    Just want to note that if Bookie A owns the event and bookie B, C and F have added outcomes to that event, Bookie A will receive the stakes on losses regardless of who created the outcomes (not B, C or F). Only the OWNER of the event will receive stakes from losing wagers.

    I wanted to keep this initial TRIAL as simply as possible and then go from there (based on feedback).
     
  15. Bob

    Bob Developer Staff Member

    just a quick screen shot of what the Alerts look like... They simply inform the Bookie (Owner of the Event) that they have received x amount from x number of losing wagers from event x. You can also OPT OUT of receiving this specific alert via the Alert Preferences page

    Selection_112.png
     
    DaniD likes this.
  16. DaniD

    DaniD New Member Showcase Sportsbook

    Bob, you are awesome. :) Thanks so much!
     
    Bob likes this.
  17. d12j28

    d12j28 Member Showcase Sportsbook Pickem Survivor

    SO, if I understand this correctly. If I make an event and say 3 people bet $100 and lose I would get that $300 I assume? But if they win the bookie wouldn't lose anything? I really like the idea of a real bookie using their own money to back the wagers.
     
  18. Bob

    Bob Developer Staff Member

    Yes, you are correct (as long as none of those 3 is you). Bookies don't get their stakes back when they lose a bet lol

    As far as bookie paying back the wagers, long story super short... there are just too many factors involved that make this impossible to do correctly and if I can't do it correctly, its not going to be done at all.
     
    resonansER likes this.
  19. topcat

    topcat Member Sportsbook Pickem Survivor

    I like this, but I still think it would have liked an option to let the bookie payout until their account was zero.

    eg the bookie doesn't need to have any cash to create events and still collects failed wagers, but if he has 1000k in his account and everyone who bets on his event wins a total of 5000k.

    then the bookie loses his cash back down to zero and everyone gets paid out as normal.

    I just think its too easy for a bookie to coin in the cash now. its a win win situation.
     
  20. Bob

    Bob Developer Staff Member

    I've been discussing this with someone in private and we've come up with a decent solution that I think is doable as far as me implementing it.

    When users place wagers on outcomes within an event, those stakes will go into a QUEUE (that the bookie does not have access to).

    When the bookie settles the event, the first thing that happens is that PUSHES are processed (which will be deducted from the Stakes Queue).

    The next step will be the Pay Outs. These will be processed regardless of what is in the queue or not (just like they are now).

    The total payouts amount from the above step will then be deducted from the stakes queue.
    1. If the Stakes Queue is MORE than the Total Payout, then the balance will be added to the Bookies on hand cash.
    2. If the Stakes Queue is LESS than the the total payout, then the difference will be deducted from the Bookies on hand cash.
      1. If the Bookie doesn't have enough to cover it, their on hand cash will be zero'd out and a "Loan" entry for that bookie will be created to cover the difference (with a admin configurable set % Loan Shark Fee).
      2. The Loan Shark (basically the system) would then collect on the loans (via CRON) by checking the bookies on hand cash balance at set intervals (hourly, daily, weekly, monthly etc).
      3. If the bookie is in debt to the Loan Shark and tries to place a wager on an event, the system will first take care of any loan payments that are due. This prevents the bookie from avoiding paying off debts.
    This (To me) is the most realistic way to handle it. Bookies will have to do their jobs just like real bookies do .. ie, no more Patriots 50 to 1 beating the Jaguars lol Bookies that create unrealistic payout odds will soon find themselves knee deep in debt to the loan sharks!
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2014
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